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Post by deathgrave on Jun 21, 2004 17:58:34 GMT -5
Hmmm i wanted some RoTK discussion so here ya go.
Discuzz with Care friendz
Oh and btw i think Liu Shan...i will post my reasons later
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Post by SOLIDSNKE on Jun 21, 2004 18:41:20 GMT -5
Kongming was definitely the downfall of Shu...
</sarcasm>
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Post by ShadowOfEden on Jun 21, 2004 19:31:32 GMT -5
I think it was Jin!  But Liu Shan sure didn't help!  |
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King Doufski
Ass-face - Shu
Foreign exchange warrior observes promising recruits for the McNanman tribe
Posts: 892
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Post by King Doufski on Jun 21, 2004 20:13:23 GMT -5
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Post by KillerChicken on Jun 21, 2004 21:46:55 GMT -5
Being on a more serious side (I am really sensitive on debates relating to this matter, so spare me if I override your humor or what-so-ever, even though I doubt that would happen), there is no way Zhuge Liang will be the fault of Shu's downfall. In fact, you can say that the started of Shu's downfall, and caused the interior of Shu to collapse, begun when Guan Yu's arrogancy got too much of him.
From there and on, Zhang Fei and Liu Bei followed his death, and so on. I wouldn't say it is the MAIN reason why Shu collapsed though. Zhuge Liang maintained Shu in the best of his abilities and it did went pretty good.
However, in battles and such, while Kongming is planning to expand Shu over Wei, Liu Shan comes into play. There were many times, where most of Kongming's lost laid, Liu Shan was involved in it. How? More or less because Liu Shan placed his trust into the eunuchs, especially Huang Hao, who can always convince Liu Shan to call Zhuge Liang to retreat when victory is near.
This soon created a bundle of stress for Kongming, which soon leaded to his death in Wu Zhang Plains. Of course, in the later part of Shu's defeat, some of the faults goes to Jiang Wei. Don't take offense if there are any big Jiang Wei fans here, but his obsessiveness on expanding his Prime Minister's dream was way too far up on his head. He is smart and things like that, but the usage of food and with Liu Shan's lack of trust on Jiang Wei, Shu eventually fell.
So, in an overall summary, the fault goes to Liu Shan (Most of the faults anyway), Guan Yu and Jiang Wei.
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Post by CJayMotherfuckingC on Jun 21, 2004 22:30:03 GMT -5
I fault Zhao Yun...If he didnt rescue Liu Shan Shu's downfall would have never happened.
Also Guan Yu
Guan Yu: Dis Lu Xun nub will never beat me lol liek Im the fucking god of war
Later Jing is taken thanks to the efforts of Lu Xun and Lu Meng
and Guan Yu lost his head.
So their the downfall of Shu was caused by:
1. a dumbass ruler
2. Jiang Wei spending all of Shus money just to get his ass handed to him by Deng Ai
3. Zhao Yun HAD to play hero that day at Chang Ban
and 4. Guan Yu was a jackass.
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Post by KillerChicken on Jun 21, 2004 22:32:06 GMT -5
He couldn't predict the future, but the entire Zhao Yun thing was probably a joke anyway.
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Post by ShadowOfEden on Jun 21, 2004 22:34:38 GMT -5
The fault goes to Guo Jia! If he wasn't sick, then shu might have never seen the day! So if something is never created, it can't fall! |
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Post by ShadowOfEden on Jun 21, 2004 22:43:25 GMT -5
Forget what I said! It's Zhou Cang's fault! If he would have existed, Guan Yu could have lived a few more minutes, giving him the chance to kill a few more guys from Wei, that would late have lots of child and engage ( ) themselves in the Wei army like their father (fodder ) was and fight agaisnt Shu! |
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Post by CJayMotherfuckingC on Jun 22, 2004 0:57:22 GMT -5
Too bad Zhou Cang never existed in history.
He was put in the novel so that Guan Yu had a bitch
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Post by ShadowOfEden on Jun 22, 2004 1:41:46 GMT -5
Too bad Zhou Cang never existed in history. Too bad you didn't read what I said... |
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Post by CJayMotherfuckingC on Jun 22, 2004 10:26:03 GMT -5
HelloIm drunk
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Post by deathgrave on Jun 22, 2004 14:10:39 GMT -5
Too bad Zhou Cang never existed in history. He was put in the novel so that Guan Yu had a bitch Too bad you didn't read what I said... PWNED! |
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King Doufski
Ass-face - Shu
Foreign exchange warrior observes promising recruits for the McNanman tribe
Posts: 892
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Post by King Doufski on Jun 23, 2004 0:44:13 GMT -5
We need to get Reap in on this. |
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Post by deathgrave on Jun 23, 2004 8:56:18 GMT -5
Oh my reasons for Liu Chan is that he was a poor leader, quite simply.
He lacked the qualities of his father and was a coward
Oh and i put Ma Dai up there because he killed Wei Yan and IMO (although very unlikely) Wei Yan's battle plans were good (the ones Zhuge ignored) and they would of turned the tide against Wei.
SUPER WEI YAN
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